Comments on: Venus Project, or 1984 on steroids? http://www.pointbite.com/2008/11/21/venus-project-or-1984-on-steroids/ pointbite.com Wed, 08 Feb 2012 05:20:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: shot a passel of actual Christian Louboutin shoes store - Silkroad Online Forum - Silkroad Bot - Silkroad Loader - SRO http://www.pointbite.com/2008/11/21/venus-project-or-1984-on-steroids/comment-page-1/#comment-6618 shot a passel of actual Christian Louboutin shoes store - Silkroad Online Forum - Silkroad Bot - Silkroad Loader - SRO Fri, 03 Feb 2012 16:54:38 +0000 http://www.pointbite.com/?p=328#comment-6618 [...] Bootie Christian Louboutin Fake Shoes That Allow You to Drop Names Without Paying the Price Wishroll Christian Louboutin Lapono Patent 120mm Ankle Boots Wishroll Christian Louboutin Skeleton Zipper Suede Boots Black __________________ And to follow [...]

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]]> By: steve baldwin http://www.pointbite.com/2008/11/21/venus-project-or-1984-on-steroids/comment-page-1/#comment-6256 steve baldwin Thu, 19 Aug 2010 17:36:16 +0000 http://www.pointbite.com/?p=328#comment-6256 Why should the Venus project be at the very least considered? It starts by addressing the problem of people starving to death, living in tents, and humanitarian crisis. Heres the thing that means calling it communism, utopia or whatever is utterly irrelevant. Everyone in the world needs and is responsible for looking after people in times of crisis, everyone needs to be feed, housed, clothed and have power and transport. These basics are not up for debate. We can do this and where anyone who actually cares about humanity and life starts. If you can’t see that these principles are a prerequisite for an economic system then I suggest you go work for the banking system they need people like you. All mankind suffers when anyone; any single or multiple individual are deprived of these basics of life. I don’t know all the ins and outs of this system but it starts from the only position that one can start from. So please don’t dame it to dismiss it because something like it was suggested before. Furthermore think hit big and win big. It’s all about consensus. Is it? We will see. May all those thermonuclear weapons will come in useful after all! Why should the Venus project be at the very least considered?
It starts by addressing the problem of people starving to death, living in tents, and humanitarian crisis.
Heres the thing that means calling it communism, utopia or whatever is utterly irrelevant. Everyone in the world needs and is responsible for looking after people in times of crisis, everyone needs to be feed, housed, clothed and have power and transport. These basics are not up for debate. We can do this and where anyone who actually cares about humanity and life starts. If you can’t see that these principles are a prerequisite for an economic system then I suggest you go work for the banking system they need people like you.
All mankind suffers when anyone; any single or multiple individual are deprived of these basics of life. I don’t know all the ins and outs of this system but it starts from the only position that one can start from. So please don’t dame it to dismiss it because something like it was suggested before. Furthermore think hit big and win big.
It’s all about consensus. Is it? We will see. May all those thermonuclear weapons will come in useful after all!

]]> By: Danny http://www.pointbite.com/2008/11/21/venus-project-or-1984-on-steroids/comment-page-1/#comment-6098 Danny Sat, 16 Jan 2010 21:41:41 +0000 http://www.pointbite.com/?p=328#comment-6098 I think there IS a solution that isn't the VP. The Federal Reserve of the United States controls the money supply and pretty much all they do is rob from the poor and middle class and cause recessions. If we restore the gold standard worldwide, there would literally be no more wars or elite because the governments would need us to finance them, so it would pretty much be up to the people. My point is governments and central banks really hold us back from achieving things, so we have to limit governments and eliminate central banks. I think there IS a solution that isn’t the VP. The Federal Reserve of the United States controls the money supply and pretty much all they do is rob from the poor and middle class and cause recessions. If we restore the gold standard worldwide, there would literally be no more wars or elite because the governments would need us to finance them, so it would pretty much be up to the people. My point is governments and central banks really hold us back from achieving things, so we have to limit governments and eliminate central banks.

]]> By: alice http://www.pointbite.com/2008/11/21/venus-project-or-1984-on-steroids/comment-page-1/#comment-5704 alice Sat, 02 May 2009 00:54:27 +0000 http://www.pointbite.com/?p=328#comment-5704 This reminds me of the arguments I had with Tim when I first joined this discussion. I suppose it's pretty sad that I am the only one left of all those who were commenting at the time. I guess it would be good for me to get a life. But I digress. The idea which you are espousing is the enlightenment idea of the blank slate. That man was born into this world with no knowledge and that all he knows comes from experience. My shortest answer to this way of thinking is that if we were born blank slates we would always be blank slates. There's a whole lot going on in humans before they are ever born and I guess one name for those things would be human nature. This reminds me of the arguments I had with Tim when I first joined this discussion. I suppose it’s pretty sad that I am the only one left of all those who were commenting at the time. I guess it would be good for me to get a life.

But I digress. The idea which you are espousing is the enlightenment idea of the blank slate. That man was born into this world with no knowledge and that all he knows comes from experience.

My shortest answer to this way of thinking is that if we were born blank slates we would always be blank slates.

There’s a whole lot going on in humans before they are ever born and I guess one name for those things would be human nature.

]]> By: brian http://www.pointbite.com/2008/11/21/venus-project-or-1984-on-steroids/comment-page-1/#comment-5698 brian Fri, 01 May 2009 16:24:00 +0000 http://www.pointbite.com/?p=328#comment-5698 "I have always had faith in the capitalist system because it fits so nicely with our human nature of wanting rewards for our efforts." Human nature? That concept is misguided. Our conditioning and experiences lead us to want rewards. There is no human nature other than what our experiences have conditioned us to. “I have always had faith in the capitalist system because it fits so nicely with our human nature of wanting rewards for our efforts.”

Human nature? That concept is misguided. Our conditioning and experiences lead us to want rewards. There is no human nature other than what our experiences have conditioned us to.

]]> By: jan http://www.pointbite.com/2008/11/21/venus-project-or-1984-on-steroids/comment-page-1/#comment-5564 jan Mon, 20 Apr 2009 02:28:22 +0000 http://www.pointbite.com/?p=328#comment-5564 LOL. Well finally we agree on something. I tip me hat to ye, girl. LOL. Well finally we agree on something. I tip me hat to ye, girl.

]]> By: jan http://www.pointbite.com/2008/11/21/venus-project-or-1984-on-steroids/comment-page-1/#comment-5558 jan Fri, 17 Apr 2009 18:04:25 +0000 http://www.pointbite.com/?p=328#comment-5558 Here’s a list of the things we need and have right now: Solar panels are a reality. I have one on my watch and on my calculator and on my RV. In fact, the solar panels on my RV charge a set of four batteries that, through an inverter, run my TV, my microwave, my computer, my lights and charge my cell phone. This is not a fantasy. This is not some daydream or imaginary world. I have this and use it TODAY! Wind generators are a reality. In fact, many farms had them before AC was pitched to them as an energy source that would be cheaper for the farmer because they wouldn’t have to service their wind generators. Computers are a reality. I’m using one now. In fact, it’s being used as a typewriter because I have a software program that turns it into a typewriter. I also have a program that lets me take pictures and store them digitally and even alter them to look like… anything I want… and a program that, by merely entering data, I become an accountant. I drive a car that is largely controlled by an on-board computer and was, to a very large extent, built by computer controlled ROBOTS. I saw an ad on TV for a car that, once you find a place to park, you turn control over to a computer controlled ROBOT that parks the car for you and another that has developed a computer controlled braking system (ROBOT) that will not let you have an accident. I go to Safeway and a computer controlled ROBOT opens the door for me when I approach and closes it behind me. And, when I check out, I don’t have to see the cashier. I scan the bar code myself, swipe my card, collect my groceries and leave without ever having any contact with another human being. ALL ROBOTS, ALL CONTROLLED BY COMPUTERS AND SOFTWARE. I drive down the street and a computer recognizes that I’m there and, when no other cars are coming, changes to green and allows me to proceed. I place my dinner in a microwave oven (COMPUTER) and it ROBOTICALLY cooks my dinner and dings at me when it’s ready for me to eat. I have a GPS unit that tells me exactly where I am and how to get to where I’m going (computer again). Is it so hard to believe in a world where ROBOTS build and service computers and other robots? Is it so hard to imagine a world where computer controlled robots plant, tend and harvest our food, take out our garbage, mow and water our lawn (opps, we already have those), vacuum our houses (opps, we have those already too). Everything that humans do today just to exist can be done with computer-controlled robots. Man no longer needs to work just to put a roof over his head or food in his mouth. That doesn’t mean that you won’t be allowed to work if that’s what you want to do. It doesn’t mean that you’ll have to go ask BIG BROTHER for the things you want/need. You can have ‘em simply by telling the computer that you want it. It just means that you won’t have to work unless you want to. It means that you will have the time to think. It means that you’ll have the time and resources to educate yourself in any field that interests you. Or you can sit around and watch “I love Lucy” reruns forever if that’s what you want. Can the Venus Project be built without money? No, of course not. We are living in a system that runs on money. But, if it’s built, is it within the realm of possibility? Absolutely!!! Are there problems that have to be worked out with the Venus Project? Yes, of course. Any new concept is going to have problems, quirks that have to be ironed out. But, frankly, the system that we live with now has gone about as far as it’s going to go and it’s failing at a rapid rate. Should we cling to a hope that doesn’t exist? Or should we look for another way? It’s been ask, “Who’s going to get it first?” The answer… What difference does it make who gets it first? I’ll volunteer right now to be the last in line. You can have my place. I know I’ll get mine eventually. There’s plenty for everyone… even the late comers! As a side note and completely off topic; people keep talking about Communism. WE ARE A COMMUNIST NATION! Do we have a graduated income tax? Communist! Do we have a central bank that controls the money? Communist! Do we have state a controlled educational system? Communist! and I could go on but you get the drift. Wake up! Here’s a list of the things we need and have right now:

Solar panels are a reality. I have one on my watch and on my calculator and on my RV. In fact, the solar panels on my RV charge a set of four batteries that, through an inverter, run my TV, my microwave, my computer, my lights and charge my cell phone.
This is not a fantasy. This is not some daydream or imaginary world. I have this and use it TODAY!
Wind generators are a reality. In fact, many farms had them before AC was pitched to them as an energy source that would be cheaper for the farmer because they wouldn’t have to service their wind generators.
Computers are a reality. I’m using one now. In fact, it’s being used as a typewriter because I have a software program that turns it into a typewriter. I also have a program that lets me take pictures and store them digitally and even alter them to look like… anything I want… and a program that, by merely entering data, I become an accountant. I drive a car that is largely controlled by an on-board computer and was, to a very large extent, built by computer controlled ROBOTS.
I saw an ad on TV for a car that, once you find a place to park, you turn control over to a computer controlled ROBOT that parks the car for you and another that has developed a computer controlled braking system (ROBOT) that will not let you have an accident.
I go to Safeway and a computer controlled ROBOT opens the door for me when I approach and closes it behind me. And, when I check out, I don’t have to see the cashier. I scan the bar code myself, swipe my card, collect my groceries and leave without ever having any contact with another human being. ALL ROBOTS, ALL CONTROLLED BY COMPUTERS AND SOFTWARE.
I drive down the street and a computer recognizes that I’m there and, when no other cars are coming, changes to green and allows me to proceed.
I place my dinner in a microwave oven (COMPUTER) and it ROBOTICALLY cooks my dinner and dings at me when it’s ready for me to eat.
I have a GPS unit that tells me exactly where I am and how to get to where I’m going (computer again).
Is it so hard to believe in a world where ROBOTS build and service computers and other robots? Is it so hard to imagine a world where computer controlled robots plant, tend and harvest our food, take out our garbage, mow and water our lawn (opps, we already have those), vacuum our houses (opps, we have those already too).
Everything that humans do today just to exist can be done with computer-controlled robots. Man no longer needs to work just to put a roof over his head or food in his mouth.
That doesn’t mean that you won’t be allowed to work if that’s what you want to do. It doesn’t mean that you’ll have to go ask BIG BROTHER for the things you want/need. You can have ‘em simply by telling the computer that you want it. It just means that you won’t have to work unless you want to. It means that you will have the time to think. It means that you’ll have the time and resources to educate yourself in any field that interests you. Or you can sit around and watch “I love Lucy” reruns forever if that’s what you want.
Can the Venus Project be built without money? No, of course not. We are living in a system that runs on money. But, if it’s built, is it within the realm of possibility? Absolutely!!!
Are there problems that have to be worked out with the Venus Project? Yes, of course. Any new concept is going to have problems, quirks that have to be ironed out. But, frankly, the system that we live with now has gone about as far as it’s going to go and it’s failing at a rapid rate.
Should we cling to a hope that doesn’t exist? Or should we look for another way?
It’s been ask, “Who’s going to get it first?” The answer… What difference does it make who gets it first? I’ll volunteer right now to be the last in line. You can have my place. I know I’ll get mine eventually. There’s plenty for everyone… even the late comers!

As a side note and completely off topic;

people keep talking about Communism. WE ARE A COMMUNIST NATION!
Do we have a graduated income tax? Communist!
Do we have a central bank that controls the money? Communist!
Do we have state a controlled educational system? Communist!
and I could go on but you get the drift.
Wake up!

]]> By: Ming http://www.pointbite.com/2008/11/21/venus-project-or-1984-on-steroids/comment-page-1/#comment-5555 Ming Fri, 17 Apr 2009 03:51:46 +0000 http://www.pointbite.com/?p=328#comment-5555 I am not interested or concerned with any sentiments regarding the Venus Project as simply "entertainment content" nor am I interested in hearing other cop-out interpretations that only tag value-labels onto substantive ideas that deserve in-depth study and elaboration, especially from individuals in a society as remarkably different as ours.(Imagine a bunch of monkeys studying other monkeys from the same group...rather easy right? Would be much harder for that same bunch of monkeys to study a bunch of fish in the sea. It would require more work, more self-inspired insight, and definitely more research.) The basic principles of the Venus Project are essentially at fault here. It simply is not realistically applicable to our current political and social system. The Venus Project essentially presents a dumbed down version of TNAT, the North American Technate, an idea that has existed since the Great Depression. Jacque use to be a part of this movement, but long since has broken ties with it. TNAT presents a much more holistic application of the same ideals that Jacque tries to uphold in the Venus Project. During the Great Depression, Technocracy in North America really became a viable option, but other circumstances prevented its advance (WWII). In any case, Technocracy is beginning to make its come back; the largest barrier that it faces today is its own image. It is often confused and attributed and attached to stupid conspiracy theories and other tried, tested, and outdated forms of governance...fascism and communism. The expanded details of the North American Technate are too comprehensive for me to even begin to talk about here... but if you are interested in delving more deeply into a humanistic approach to society, then I suggest you check out these links and essays that I have presented. http://technatedesign-tnat.blogspot.com/ This is the "I am the Price System" Essay written by R.B Langan, A technocrat, in 1944. http://www.technocracy.org/Archives/I%20Am%20The%20Price%20System-r.HTM This is an introductory video to Technocracy on Youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9ps5vJrIxM I am not interested or concerned with any sentiments regarding the Venus Project as simply “entertainment content” nor am I interested in hearing other cop-out interpretations that only tag value-labels onto substantive ideas that deserve in-depth study and elaboration, especially from individuals in a society as remarkably different as ours.(Imagine a bunch of monkeys studying other monkeys from the same group…rather easy right? Would be much harder for that same bunch of monkeys to study a bunch of fish in the sea. It would require more work, more self-inspired insight, and definitely more research.) The basic principles of the Venus Project are essentially at fault here. It simply is not realistically applicable to our current political and social system. The Venus Project essentially presents a dumbed down version of TNAT, the North American Technate, an idea that has existed since the Great Depression. Jacque use to be a part of this movement, but long since has broken ties with it. TNAT presents a much more holistic application of the same ideals that Jacque tries to uphold in the Venus Project. During the Great Depression, Technocracy in North America really became a viable option, but other circumstances prevented its advance (WWII). In any case, Technocracy is beginning to make its come back; the largest barrier that it faces today is its own image. It is often confused and attributed and attached to stupid conspiracy theories and other tried, tested, and outdated forms of governance…fascism and communism. The expanded details of the North American Technate are too comprehensive for me to even begin to talk about here… but if you are interested in delving more deeply into a humanistic approach to society, then I suggest you check out these links and essays that I have presented.

http://technatedesign-tnat.blogspot.com/

This is the “I am the Price System” Essay written by R.B Langan, A technocrat, in 1944.

http://www.technocracy.org/Archives/I%20Am%20The%20Price%20System-r.HTM

This is an introductory video to Technocracy on Youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9ps5vJrIxM

]]> By: spandrel http://www.pointbite.com/2008/11/21/venus-project-or-1984-on-steroids/comment-page-1/#comment-2540 spandrel Wed, 10 Dec 2008 06:08:53 +0000 http://www.pointbite.com/?p=328#comment-2540 I got the impression you were a bit frustrated. He and Point did have somewhat decent discussions starting off that thread, but it's gotten more convoluted now. I am going to try to respond once more. If nothing else I suppose he could change my mind. I got the impression you were a bit frustrated. He and Point did have somewhat decent discussions starting off that thread, but it’s gotten more convoluted now. I am going to try to respond once more. If nothing else I suppose he could change my mind.

]]> By: alice http://www.pointbite.com/2008/11/21/venus-project-or-1984-on-steroids/comment-page-1/#comment-2533 alice Tue, 09 Dec 2008 18:09:28 +0000 http://www.pointbite.com/?p=328#comment-2533 I'm having a bit of a problem communicating with Tim, so I'll adress some of his ideas by addressing yours Spandrel. Dawkins, Wilson and Gould all have their takes on what Darwin's theory means and what it's implications are. They argue and write books about it. We read them and if we are interested and informed about the subject we may agree or vehemently disagree. Hell, we might even decide to go with intelligent design as our explanation for how we ended up where we are. Similiarly, we might become afraid about global warming after watching a two hour movie about it and want all sorts of action to be taken. We might also be in favor of bailing out the banking industry because we don't want the economy of the whole world to collapse. Or we might sit back and say that the climate of the earth is always changing and that it is because we now have so populated the earth as never before we are in a bit of a mess because we can't just migrate to another location. Or we might look at the failing bank system and say "tough luck losers, go ahead and fail". Or we might think the whole thing is such an irredeemable mess that it sould be thrown over in favor of a "resource based economy" (whatever that means) We have all of these choices and because of the complexity of our global society all action becomes questionable. But if nothing else, we humans do like to act. Tim thinks perhaps that people are not as aware of the brainwashing that is taking place as he is. But I would say that there is brainwashing going on all the time and has been going on forever. If we think that's going to change....well it isn't. We all want to control our world and influence outcomes. We do it in differing ways, aome of it is brainwashing or coercion or just simply by not telling the whole truth. It is incumbent upon the individual to sort through all of the information available and make one's own decisions about what they are being told.Some are more gullible than others. Some don't trust anyone. Some just suspend belief until they can gather better information. I think it is silly to accuse an entire population of not being aware of the forces which are brought to bear against them. Just a few thoughts. I’m having a bit of a problem communicating with Tim, so I’ll adress some of his ideas by addressing yours Spandrel.

Dawkins, Wilson and Gould all have their takes on what Darwin’s theory means and what it’s implications are. They argue and write books about it. We read them and if we are interested and informed about the subject we may agree or vehemently disagree. Hell, we might even decide to go with intelligent design as our explanation for how we ended up where we are.

Similiarly, we might become afraid about global warming after watching a two hour movie about it and want all sorts of action to be taken. We might also be in favor of bailing out the banking industry because we don’t want the economy of the whole world to collapse. Or we might sit back and say that the climate of the earth is always changing and that it is because we now have so populated the earth as never before we are in a bit of a mess because we can’t just migrate to another location. Or we might look at the failing bank system and say “tough luck losers, go ahead and fail”.

Or we might think the whole thing is such an irredeemable mess that it sould be thrown over in favor of a “resource based economy” (whatever that means)

We have all of these choices and because of the complexity of our global society all action becomes questionable. But if nothing else, we humans do like to act.

Tim thinks perhaps that people are not as aware of the brainwashing that is taking place as he is. But I would say that there is brainwashing going on all the time and has been going on forever. If we think that’s going to change….well it isn’t.

We all want to control our world and influence outcomes. We do it in differing ways, aome of it is brainwashing or coercion or just simply by not telling the whole truth. It is incumbent upon the individual to sort through all of the information available and make one’s own decisions about what they are being told.Some are more gullible than others. Some don’t trust anyone. Some just suspend belief until they can gather better information. I think it is silly to accuse an entire population of not being aware of the forces which are brought to bear against them.

Just a few thoughts.

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